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Re: songwriters and geography trivia
In a message dated 12/30/1998 5:14:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Kendrickjd at aol_com writes:
> In a message dated 12/30/98 12:32:18 AM Central Standard Time, Ysobelle
> writes:
>
> > In a message dated 12/29/98 11:44:40 PM, Kendrickjd at aol_com wrote:
> >
> > <<
> > "conservatives are in a pickle...they like to talk about
> consequences...well,
> >
> > the consequences of condemnation can turn out to be death...but just as
> > white
> > racists created a climate for lynching blacks, just as hate radio
created
> a
> > climate for militias, so the constant degrading of homosexuals is
> exacting
> > a
> > toll in blood...discerning clergymen and moralists can hate the sin and
> love
> > the sinner, but by the time the homophobic message reached the angry
guys
> > sitting in the bar, that distinction has been lost."
> >
> > >>
> >
> > I knew someone was going to say this better than I ever could, so I
didn'
> t
> > say anything this morning. Thanks. Whence cometh this particular quote?
>
> okay...focus on the family (james dobson's right-wing group) is one of the
> groups that has been accused (though not formally of course) of having
> something to do with--some influence in--matthew shepard's murder. people
> have accused religious groups that openly oppose homosexuality and teach
> intolerance of it of creating a climate for such violence. i read the
focus
> on the family newsletter where james dobson responded to those allegations.
> he basically said that christians were only standing up for what is right
> according to the bible and all that. he also quoted things that had been
> said
> about him/FOTF so he could respond to them. the above quote was from an
> article in newsweek and, to him, "the most ridiculous thing i have ever
> heard".
> to me, the writer of this quote was right on the money. any of us can say
> whatever we want, but we have to be responsible for it.
> jan
You're right, people need to be responsible for the consequences of the things
they say, but unless you can show a causal relationship between what was said
and what was done your accusations are unjust, unfair, and hypocritical. I
could just as easily say that the author of that quote (and you too, since you
propagated it) have called those "clergymen and moralists" murderers (since
their words allegedly have led to the death of Shepard and others), therefore
you seem to be creating an environment that is conducive to violence against
those same clergymen.
If you can show me that a couple thugs in a bar killed someone because of what
Dobson or someone else said, I'll support your position, but I seriously doubt
that they were the sort to listen to Dobson. After all, hatred of gays
predates the supposed "rise of the 'Religious Right'". The preacher from
Kansas that Brad mentioned in his post yesterday is more likely to appeal to
someone inclined to violence, yet I've not heard of anyone associated with him
having committed any act of violence against homosexuals. Personally, I think
this guy from Kansas is deserving of (at least) a public flogging for the sort
of things he's saying, and if someone influenced by him does commit a crime,
he should be prosecuted for that too.
I have no problem whatsoever with holding someone accountable for what they
say and/or do, but I do draw the line at condemning the Dobsons of the world
for the actions of people unrelated to them.
Now, having said all that, can we at least take this discussion off-list? I'm
sure most other listies don't really care what either of us think about this
matter.
Thanks,
Steve