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Re: A friend has recommended this site

> > > Anyway, I can see you didn't read past the title page, but I hope
> > > others on this list find the testimony of people who have left this
> > > lifestyle to be compelling, at least.  If it is indeed true, the
> > > "genetics" argument is in trouble.
> >
> > Um, it is in no such thing.  Genes only *influence* your decisions --
> > you still have to actually decide to live a certain way.  And studies
> > do indicate that genes influence a lot of things, from suicidal
> > tendencies, to proclivities for crime or violence, to sexual
> > orientation, etc.
>
> Right, and Masters and Johnson concluded in studies that everyone is
> homosexual to a varying extent.  Kurt Cobain sang about this.
>
> Pete, (may I call you that?) you should realize that I am aware of the
> influence of genes.  Again I ask, please give me some credit.

By the same token, I would ask that you give gays some credit.  Not all of
them make the "genetics" argument, and those who do are generally quite
willing to concede that genetics *alone* is not the only determining
factor.  I think most people would say it's a combination of nature and
nurture, though the nature may be stronger in some than others.

> The point I was getting at was the vibe I get from this whole gay
> position on genetics- we were made this way and have no real choice.

See, it's when you say things like "this whole gay position" that I think
you're not giving gay people enough credit.  There is more than one gay
position on this subject, just as there is more than one het position.

And let's face it, people never choose what appeals to them; people never
choose their temptations.  As one of my favorite lines in one of my
favorite movies (_Lawrence of Arabia_) goes, a man can do what he wants or
be what he wants, but he cannot *want* what he wants.

> However, if homosexuals can, via prayer and vigilance, cast aside their
> homosexuality, well, the whole parallel begins to deconstruct.

How many people who have "left the lifestyle" have actually "cast aside
their homosexuality", though?  A change in behaviour does not necessarily
indicate a change in one's nature -- the testimonies of many ex-ex-gays
(i.e. people who "left the lifestyle", got involved in heterosexual
marriages, then lapsed back into "the lifestyle") tesitifies to *that*.

> The church, splintered and divided, is losing it's voice . . .

Quite frankly, I don't know if I *want* the church to have only one voice.

> > As for people who have "left this lifestyle" -- it is open to question
> > how many of them were gay, per se, and how many were closer to
> > "bisexual" on the scale.
>
> Is that the Masters and Johnson scale?

Nope, *any* scale that places absolute homo on one end and absolute het on
the other.

> Anyway, why don't you go to the CNLGLFG room at talkcity.com and ask
> them yourself?

Heck, I haven't got time to waste on *this* thread, really!  Why on earth
would I go join *another* one?  :)

--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- peter at chattaway_com ---
 "I detected one misprint, but to torture you I will not tell you where."
      Winston Churchill to T.E. Lawrence, re Seven Pillars of Wisdom

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