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RE: Cliques Are Us vs. Kyle's Withdrawal Symptoms
I thought I'd add my urine to the pissing match, briefly.
> My first thought when I saw THE offensive post was somebody was being
ironic
> to teach us that Kyle is pretty middle-of-the-road when it comes right
down
> to it.
My first thought was "Look! Another moron who can't type, spell or
communicate thoughts clearly!"
> My second thought was, Gee Kyle, whose computer are you borrowing? I mean,
> isn't it a little convenient for someone with Kyle's bitterness, lack of
> creativity, and yes, the same suspect spelling, to come along and make
Kyle
> look good right while he's hovering on-line posting every few minutes? He
> gets to do his little rebuttal, and there you go, all of a sudden Kyle is
> coming off quite the little gentleman. But maybe his multiple addresses
that
> he was boasting about are actually used for something constructive.
Nope. Even though it was posted with a Yahoo mail account, don't think it
isn't traceable. There ain't no such thing as true anonymity anymore since
the remailer at anon.penet.fi went down sometime in '94.
Yahoo mail received the offensive email from a user at 216.82.40.10.
Research indicates that the entity known as "Don R. Struehll" has posted
once to the list before (in Oct. 99), and it was also in the 216.82.40.*
range. Add to that a rather lame review of 'Meet Joe Black' that was
posted to some movie site from that email addy (also 216.82.40.*), and
you've got enough to do a little more research.
The fact that only the last octet changes, and is different on different
occasions tells me that "Don" is using a modem to reach a (probably local)
ISP. In about 10 minutes, I was able to narrow down the possibilities of
who owns that range to about a pageful of hosts. Call it 20 or so. Being
the rather busy individual that I am, I haven't bothered to track it down
exactly, but an interesting trend *did* present itself - about 14 of the 20
or so appear to be Tennesee-based ISPs. Including Mark's icx.net.
Markus? Taking notes? ;-)
All things aside, I happen to know that Kyle has access to the internet at
two places - home & work. At home, he shares the RoadRunner cable modem
connection with me. RR gives us a (mostly) static IP address in the range
of 24.95.93.* through 24.95.104.*
At work, Kyle's IP would be given by the Ohio State University DHCP servers
- somewhere in these ranges: 128.146.1.*; 128.146.48.*; 192.101.21.*;
16.1.0.*; 204.123.2.*
So, the point of all this is 2 things:
1) Kyle didn't send that post, and I can say this based on *objective*
evidence as well as personal evidence.
2) Don't bother hiding behind web-based email thinking you can be anonymous.
There's always someone better at finding you than you are at hiding.
> who represents most things the band I came to enjoy has
> worked so hard to rise above? Things like cynicism, self-absorption,
> mediocrity, lack of originality, boredom, abrasiveness?
They haven't risen above self-absorption, mediocrity, or lack of originality
for some time now.
> I mean if Kyle couldn't copy everyone elses posts into his own, and
> then pee on them, what would he actually talk about? Is he even capable
> of just offering up an original idea without quoting everyone else?
You keep harping on Kyle's inclusion of the text to which he is replying.
Most of us with even *barely* adequate email software have this feature as a
default. It's proper netiqette to quote the post you're replying to. Makes
following threads easier for those only reading and not necessarily
involved.
> It takes intelligence to build something. If Kyle really wanted to
critique
> Over the Rhine, he could build something with his life like the members of
> Over the Rhine have done, something original that speaks for itself. The
> members of Over the Rhine don't have to go around railing about how
mediocre
> the world is. Their work speaks for them and says, Well here is an
> alternative, here is something a little different. If it resonates with
you,
> enjoy. This is our attempt to create something good.
>
> Tearing something down day after day and building nothing with your own
life
> doesn't require intelligence; at best it requires swinging by the costume
> shop for a wood-tick outfit.
How do you know what any of us have or have not built with our own lives?
Were I in OTR's position, I'd rather have a discussion list of negative
pessimists than one filled to the rafters with undying adulation/hero
worship.
> And now for the heart of the matter. If I get upset when I see people
> grossly mis-representing the spirit of Over the Rhine in this discussion
> it's because I ask myself, What the hell is going on with this space that
> Over the Rhine provides, a space which seemed so foreign the first time I
> stopped by for a visit? I mean back then Kyle for one was pontificating
> about handguns. And no, it didn't have anything to do with the lyric to
> Within Without.
Ahh, the old "What will the newbies think" argument again. Who cares?
> I ask myself how many people are stopping by and taking one look at the
> level of conversation people like Kyle perpetrate day after day, and say,
> Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to the music.
Then lock yourself in your room and listen to your music and don't bother to
come out and face the real world - the world where people talk about (gasp)
guns and things. Some of them even HAVE guns.
> Why is the music of Over the Rhine moving in the first place? Have you
ever
> met a child who is not an artist? Is losing one's innocence as a child
> essentially the same as laying down that part of our humanity that we were
> given at birth, that part of us which for lack of a better description, is
> artistic? Is the struggle to be an artist really just a struggle to regain
> innocence? (Hey, I never thought about that band's name, The Innocence
> Mission, in relation to this until just now. Hmm.) Does Over the Rhine's
> music invite everyone to participate in some sort of artistic journey, or
is
> it something that comes off as a bit exclusive, holier-than-thou?
To use your own phrase, INBRED INTELLECTUALISM.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Etc.
> If these sorts of things or any number of relevant things are not being
> discussed because a few people want to ruin it for everybody, well, it's a
> bit sad, and funny or not it feels a little bit pathetic. And you all may
> never know what you are missing, because the people that could contribute
at
> length from their own personal experience on topics of equal or greater
> interest won't bother hanging around participating in a conversation that
is
> banal more often than not.
Bottom line: Most email clients have filtering capabilities.
If you don't like a certain listie's posts: Don't read 'em.
If you don't like a certain thread, or topic: Don't read 'em.
If you don't like me, or my views: Fuck off. Who needs you?
> I would be surprised if this discussion list isn't in the process of
> shrivelling up and dying. Over the Rhine has a record out on Virgin. Walk
> into the Virgin Megastore in NYC in Union Square: they're playing Over the
> Rhine, there are records everywhere, they are getting played here in the
> city--where are all the new people? You know their site is getting
thousands
> of hits. Why isn't this place buzzing with new life and new ideas? Is this
> the only part of Over the Rhine that's not growing? I'll bet you any
amount
> of money it is. I'll bet that dozens of intelligent artistic people stop
by
> and take one look at the level of conversation that has evolved thanks in
> part to the Kyle(s) of the world and say, Hmm, I don't detect a whole lot
> here that interests me.
You obviously haven't ever read any of the music newsgroups in the
alt.music.* or rec.music.* hierarchies. This is par for the course.
> So if you like business as usual, carry on. If you would like this list to
> be a growing thriving community, think twice before you praise and defend
> mediocrity.
Blah. It *is* a thriving community.
> I'll check back in a few weeks.
Woohoo.
Now, Aaron Barker will bring us the auto racing report.
Oops, was that a "clique-ish" comment instead of a "community-minded" one?
--
Chris Emery
Web Commerce Developer
chris.emery at ecoutlook_com
http://www.ecoutlook.com
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