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One more time on this Christian Art thing
Mouvy de Lust:
>shouldn't you accept your friends decision not to see a certain
>movie--for whatever reason? I mean after all condemning their
>decision is the same thing as condemning them, which is the same thing
as
>condemning their belief system--and where does that take us?
Eek! Gotta take issue with a bunch of things in this post, partly cos it
takes issue with my use of the word "CRAP."
First, I don't think that condemning a choice is tantamount to condemning
a belief system. Without believing your belief system is wrong, I can
believe you are wrong for driving recklessly or for spitting on the
sidewalk or for wearing tacky shorts. And I can think it was a mistake
for someone to buy the latest cardboard-cutout religious recording artist
without condemning either the entire belief system of the buyer or the
recording artist. Some of these poorly produced and recorded and written
religious songs are written in support of things I am absolutely behind.
And THAT is why they are really, really disturbing, in the end. I do not
want the messages that are important to me to be spoken from the mouths
of fools. See?
>I can appreciate good art, but there aren't enough people out there
>who will stand up and say something is bad art when it's something other
>than religious in nature.
I will, though. And I think it's the nature of this list to stand up and
say when something is bad art, no matter where it comes from. I mean, if
the Backstreet Boys went on rhetorical trial here, they wouldn't fare
very well, either.
> We need more people who will say something isn't acceptable "based on
good >morals" or "good taste" or "common decency."
But sometimes we need bad taste. As art. Flannery O'Connor wrote a lot
of tasteless stuff. But it was sooooo tasty. And it would've been
condemned by Christian radio if it had been put in the form of pop songs.
>People say that Christian art is "CRAP"
Oops. That was me. I said that. But I didn't say that. I said that
many things labeled "Christian Art" are crap--that is, poorly done and
poorly written.
>and artists like Sixpence,
>and even OtR distance themselves from the label, but the truth is that
>that "CRAP" is appealing to people right now.
What does this mean? Is it good if people like poorly written, poorly
produced, shallow statements on morality? I don't think that's what you
were trying to say here. I think you are trying to say that the morality
of Christianity is appealing to people right now, and I, too, think that
is good. But that doesn't justify the Chrtistian music industry's
tendency to put out poor work. When Christians create poor work, it is
not glorifying to God.
>I don't necessarily like MWS, or Kim Boyce's material that much either,
but I know that >some people do. And I would much rather support
Carman's worst effort than
>Marilyn Manson's best.
Um. Hmmm. Carman and Michael W Smith have their places. They do some
good ministry, and I won't condemn it, but their product, right down to
the t shirts and concerts is often more ministry than art. Whereas what
Sam Phillips and VOL and OtR do might be considered art as ministry. But
Carman's worst effort is very poor, indeed, and Marilyn Manson, who
produces a lot of bad stuff, may produce the world's best song someday.
Why do we draw these lines? If Carman does a great song, I will appluad.
If Manson does a great song, I will appluad. If either one of 'em does
poor work, I'm gonna call 'em out.
>So if you think Christian Art is largely all crap laced with deceit
>and greed, look around-- so is everything else.
If Christian Art fits this description, then it is not glorifying to
Christ and therefore is not Christian. Just Christian Art. Everything
is not greedy crap; there's a whole lot of beauty, and you know it.
>That group that seems to always get
>kicked around is the Christians, and the condemnation of us has
>caught on. Just look at Hollywood. Have you seen a movie lately that
>portrays a Christian in a positive light? No. What we have is
everything from
>Carrie to The Apostle. Please.
1) Think twice about the Apostle. There's a lot there that's worth
seeing and feeling and salvaging.
2) And understand that true Christians following Christ have always been
and will always be subject to persecution of all kinds. The condmenation
"caught on" in the first century AD.
3) Please what?
>And I assure you that Christian art is important to many. If my very
>first CD hadn't been Carman, then the one I bought last week wouldn't
>have been VoL. Everything has a place and a season--that's from the
>Bible-- the *cornerstone* of Christian Artwork.
Aye. And my first cass-ette tape was Petra. But that was milk. It's
time for solid food, and that often comes from not-Christian art . . .
Fred
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