Re: The literate Jesus

[John Paul Davis <johnd at antioch-college_edu>]

Peter T. Chattaway wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, kevin j hopp wrote:
> 
>>The Luke ref was the first thing that stuck out to me also but I would
>>assume that those who think Jesus may have not have been able to read
>>have probably decided, in their search for a historical Jesus, that the
>>scriptures aren't a reliable witness so it wouldn't matter how many
>>verses there were to back it up if they can point to external history
>>texts that say illiteracy was a cultural norm of the day. Can't reason
>>with presuppositions.
> 
> 
> Ah, well, "can't reason with presuppositions" cuts both ways -- can you
> reason with someone who presupposes that every word in the Bible *must* be
> factually and historically true and must therefore be believed?
> 
> In fact, we already *know* that the scriptures are not 100% reliable on
> matters of historical fact because we can see that they contradict each
> other on various details here and there, like when Jesus is killed on the
> day *of* Passover in Mark but on the day *before* Passover in John.
> 
>

Word, Peter, Word.

I'd add that Kevin's charaterization of how historical Jesus scholarship 
works is a caricature; it's not that they have "decided, in their search 
for a historical Jesus, that the scriptures aren't a reliable witness", 
but rather that the scriptures are *sometimes* a reliable witness and 
sometimes not, and that the way we determine their reliability is to 
hold them to the same scholoarly standard to which we hold other ancient 
documents. If we have to suspend thought to buy that the Bible is always 
a reliable witness, then it isn't, byt definition, reliable, at least 
not at the points where we have to suspend thought.The Jesus Seminar 
concludes that some of the stuf described in the Bible happened, and 
some didn't. And they disagree with one another, as all scholars do. My 
favorite Jesus Seminarian, Marcus Borg, contends that the miracles 
really happened, for example, while John Dominic Crossan contends that 
*no* miracles happened.

(And please, nobody bring up Josh "I cite arguable 30-year-old 
scholarship, quote noted scholars out of context, and make up scholars 
out fo thin air" McDowell as an example of someone holding the Bible up 
to scholarly standards. That'd be like citing Ken Lay as an example of 
good business ethics).



- John

np: "Guateque Campesino" - Ibrahim Ferrer

-- 
John Paul Davis
Center for Community Learning
Antioch College
http://www.antioch-college.edu/ccl

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The benefits of helping somebody is beneficial

- George W. Bush
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http://www.johnpauldavis.org

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