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Re: love one another

hi patty and list :)

> I do agree with that, but I also think our race,
> creed, and sex make us
> beautiful special individuals.

definitely agreed!..lots of exclamation points: !!!!
:)

but as for creed...i don't see it in the same light. 
i don't think the reality we are all trying to find is
up for negotiation in the creative and authoritative
sense.  in the end, whatever ends up being true is
true and has been the whole stinkin' time :)  how it
works itself out in our perceptions, however, is not
nearly that clear.  so...i'll stay open with the right
always to change my view :)

and i have learned _a lot_ from people of different
creeds.  i appreciate their insights as they search
for reality.  i often have more in common with
non-christians than with christians.  but when it
comes down to the most "important" things, i identify
most readily with christians/christianity.

> the verse, 'we are many parts, but all  
> one body. The gifts we have we're given to share

i love that too.  as a crosser of cultural lines
whenever possible, i embrace difference.  culture
isn't the issue (or shouldn't be).  when you talk
about the body you're referring to the body of christ,
right?  and if you are, you're talking about
christians.  so i can't say every creed fits into the
body.

i agree that we are all loved by the same god--i think
you put that very well.  a lot of pride keeps us apart
as people...makes christians unapproachable, nourishes
the hate matt was talking about.  

> world" But you cannot reach others without first
> fixing yourself. I have always believed that
> intimacy must come before impact, and I know I am
> not capable of loving others until I can accept
> myself.

i think it might even be a simultaneous process.  i'll
never be fully whole...perfect in this life.  moving
towards it, always.  but i'm a pained eustace,
willingly enduring the claws of the lion who would
save me.

i look at the church itself as a picture of myself. 
if it's too inwardly focussed, it just dies.  but it
must attend to that stuff too or it will also die. 
the healthiest churches i've found, imho, are
supporting/serving the body in the church, the
community around it and other nations.  

> Yes, it is more important to agree on compassion and
> empathy than on creed or background. 

at this point i've given up on agreeing :)  but i'm
all about loving and serving despite how i feel or who
is with me.

> But I personally hate
> evangelism.

i don't like it, but i believe in it.

> I think to walk in to someone else's
> society that I know nothing about and telling them
> to live a certain way is just plain dumb.

i agree.  and it's painful to look at the remnants of
people walking in uneducated with closed minds...and
more to the poing: hearts...in such places.  but why
not walk in having learned some (we'll never know it
all), love and serve in action and in telling the
truth when you can?  

there are times when i feel like i have "no right" to
tell anyone anything.  but if i believed that truly
and kept to myself, it would have more to do with my
insecurity and an inverted sort of pride (false
humility) than with the truth of the matter.

yeah, _i_ have no right in and of myself.  but i've
been filled with the holy spirit.  i've been given
things to do!  people to love and serve.  to talk to
and share my life.  whatever that means.  a lot of the
time, it doesn't have to do with preaching or
instructing, but i can't duck out when those times
come.  

if you could have seen my younger sister cry her eyes
out during our "big talk" about jesus....after years
of avoiding all that like the plague b/c she was sick
of hipocrisy etc.  i "let her be," not preaching or
teaching for years.  i just stuck by her in her drug
problems etc.  then she was open, and i was willing to
say something.  her life was changed.  she was
peaceful and changed!  now she is dead.  when that
happened, all of our family relationships with her
were solid and sweet.  i'm glad that i opened my mouth
for more reasons than just our familial ties.

> would prefer to show what Christianity is through
> works, serving and love. Through acceptance and
> attitude.

this is definitely how i'd prefer to show it.  but
here and there something else is appropriate. 
something more risky.

> I think more conversions would be made by
> going to India and cleaning "houses" with people,
> than trying to verbally talk someone into your
> religion.

that's a great idea.  like mother theresa arriving so
frail for the first time in calcutta.  seeing a crowd
go around a place on the side walk and smelling an
odor that made her want to vomit.  but then lifting up
that man (whose flesh was being consumed by worms) on
a sidewalk.  him asking her why she was doing that. 
her saying "because i love you."

but why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?  and
also, does it have to be about logical numbers and
calculation conversions (re: "I think more conversions
would be made...")?  i believe god is in charge of
wooing people to himself.  i just do what i'm
told--whatever that is--that i can actually understand
with a peaceful and clean conscience :)

well, anyway, patty, i think you're a woman after my
own heart.  i understand the frustration with
christian evangelism.  i can't say i'm a solid
evangelical with complete confidence in all the inner
workings of it.  but when it's just me and a bible, i
can't get away from it.  i believe it's true.  it's
kind of like love: more of a decision than a feeling.

take care,
j. marie

=====
All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and the change is painful. -Flannery O'Connor

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