punishment

["J. Marie Hall" <fionaeval at yahoo_com>]

> JM:
> >yeah, but do babies and animals have anything to do
> >with evil decisions of men (and possibly women at
> that
> >time)?
> 
> No, but perhaps they would have.  If God knows all,
> it stands to reason that 
> he knew the children of Sodom and Gomorrah were
> destined to grow into 
> wickedness.

if that's true, why not wipe out the whole earth now? 
why are we in this earthly experience if our destinies
are known and god should just wipe out the evil ones
since he knows who they are?  i believe that he does
know--but that's why i have to trust him that there's
a purpose in playing this out.  what about the entire
idea of repentence and being confronted with truth?

> A child is a product of his or her
> environment, after all.

i believe that to only an extent--i don't think that's
completely true.  how could you explain the intense
differences b/w my sister's and my reactions to our
environments?  granted, sometimes they were similar
(which comes against the idea that she was just
rebelling against her predecessor); but we made very
different choices most of the time.
 
> Animals are trivial.  (Sorry PETA.)

i don't think that's true either.  perhaps they are
not as "important" as humans, but i believe that's
goin' a bit far with our preiminence.  adam was told
to steward the earth.  i don't know that it was _just_
for his own pleasure.  it was a responsibility.

Matt:
> > > What doesn't kill you, (the species
> > > as a whole) makes you
> > > stronger, ya now?
> 
> JM:
> >i can't say i'm totally with you on that point :)
> >might as well do away with the entire concept of
> mercy
> >given that view.
> 
> Ever hear of "tough love"?  A parent that punishes a
> child IS being 
> merciful, for the future looms ever present, and a
> child must be prepared to 
> face it like a man or fall by the wayside.

if i were truly punished for all i've done, i wouldn't
be standing.  a little mercy has been extended all of
us.  especially regarding eternal life.  honestly, i
think we can admit that we rarely get what we truly
deserve.

i'm with you about the issue of enabling and tough
love.  but i think we need to accept that there is a
time and place for everything and perhaps even some
kind of balance.


> Anyhow, the concept of mercy doesn't comfortably
> juxtapose itself with Old 
> Testament depictions of genocide in the first place,
> unless looked at from 
> this perspective, IMHO.  The species was made
> stronger as a whole by 
> decisions the Lord "executed" in the OT.  The
> destruction of wicked and 
> unrighteous men is likened to the removal of a
> tumor, or excising a cancer.

i think we do learn from others' mistakes, but i go
back to example you cited with noah.  he basically
wiped out the entire earth.  almost a clean slate.  so
maybe we were given an individual's shot age-wise?

and as for these tumors--we have plenty and have never
existed on the earth without them.

> violence in a parent.  I was tying to draw a
> parallel between God and your 
> mom, who both surely dealt out punishment, but
> weren't psychopathic killers!

well yeah :)  but my mom was very careful how she
punished me.  standing firm against my will was
different than standing firm agains my sister's.  in
fact, i was rarely spanked.  i usually ran up and
confessed in tears and asked for my punishment.  if my
parents showed the slightest bit of disappointment in
me, i was genuinely crushed.  so maybe their wacks
were lighter on me?  either way, i felt it terribly.
 
livin' la vida libro,
j. marie

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References:

• Re: matt's take
• From: "The Mattrix" <soberman_69 at hotmail_com>

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