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Re: matt's take






>From: "J. Marie Hall" <fionaeval at yahoo_com>
> > >-->well yeah :)  but i'm going to play devil's
> > >advocate for fun: is violence inherently, 100%
> > evil,
> > >biblically speaking or otherwise?

No, of course.  Just generally.  Killing in self defense isn't an evil act 
of violence.  Nor is punishing the unjust.

Me:
> > God is all about upholding righteousness.  The
> > unrighteous get punished.

JM:
>yeah, but do babies and animals have anything to do
>with evil decisions of men (and possibly women at that
>time)?

No, but perhaps they would have.  If God knows all, it stands to reason that 
he knew the children of Sodom and Gomorrah were destined to grow into 
wickedness.  A child is a product of his or her environment, after all.

Animals are trivial.  (Sorry PETA.)
Me:
> > Does a parent who spanks her brat deserve to be
> > called a child abuser?

>i don't pretend to say that god was wrong.  i just
>don't understand it all.  and i can't say that god
>hasn't sometimes delt out "violence," whatever his
>higher purpose, b/c i'd say he has.

Right.  I never meant to imply God hasn't used violence to enforce His will, 
only that it He doesn't love violence, else He'd be evil.  Apologies if I 
wasn't clear.

me:
> > What doesn't kill you, (the species
> > as a whole) makes you
> > stronger, ya now?

JM:
>i can't say i'm totally with you on that point :)
>might as well do away with the entire concept of mercy
>given that view.

Ever hear of "tough love"?  A parent that punishes a child IS being 
merciful, for the future looms ever present, and a child must be prepared to 
face it like a man or fall by the wayside.

Anyhow, the concept of mercy doesn't comfortably juxtapose itself with Old 
Testament depictions of genocide in the first place, unless looked at from 
this perspective, IMHO.  The species was made stronger as a whole by 
decisions the Lord "executed" in the OT.  The destruction of wicked and 
unrighteous men is likened to the removal of a tumor, or excising a cancer.

me:
> > ever spank you?  Did she also used to sneak out at
> > night with a choice piece
> > of cutlery tucked under her trenchcoat?  See my
> > point?

JM:
>huh?  i will say that i was never beat with cutlery.
>and i'm glad for that :)

No, no.  Sorry, I was rushed to get ready for work when I wrote that.  I 
meant that punishment doesn't prove abuse, or bloodthirstiness, or love of 
violence in a parent.  I was tying to draw a parallel between God and your 
mom, who both surely dealt out punishment, but weren't psychopathic killers! 
  ;-)

>glad to be alive,

I'm glad ya are too.

livin' la vida sofa,

Matt


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