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Re: homophobia (not really limited to that)

To: "'derekac001 at hotmail_com'" <derekac001 at hotmail_com>, "'Over-the-Rhine at actwin_com'" <Over-the-Rhine at actwin_com>
Subject: Re: homophobia (not really limited to that)
From: "Gennaro, Joe" <jgennaro at harris_com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:45:04 -0400

(derek) Your post made me think of a very real and concrete answer to Steve's
question about what churches can do to make lgbs feel accepted. It's a simple
thing and and something I've already cried out for in this discussion. Listen to
us. 
(Joe) I have listened and will continue to. Talk to me. Share with me. I will
continue to do the same back... tirelessly.
(Derek) I'm sure it's not your intent, but when I read your post these are the
things I hear: automatic association of homosexuality (or homosexual acts) with
sin. 
(Joe) True...
(Derek) There is no sense that homosexual act can be part of a stable, loving
relationship.
(Joe) The Greek has many words for love, which is better than our English. The
is Eros, which is erotic love or sexual attraction. There is the type of love
you would have for your parents. There is divine love. There is love of a
friend... etc. They all have separate terms... wish I knew them all. So which
form of love are you talking about? Well it doesn't matter really. A homosexual
act (sin) can happen between people who have true love for each other. You see,
God would honor the true love that is between these 2, but not the sin. An
example: I love my sister. If I had sinned and had sex with her, that kind of
love would have been seriously wrong, but I still would have another kind of
love that is honoring to God. Hopefully, we would work it out (repent) and
continue to love each other in the way that God intended.
(Derek) lgbs are automatically assumed to be the stereotypical 'loose-moraled'
libertarians who will shag anything that moves as long as it's their own sex. 
(Joe) No way do I believe that... this is totally unjustified. There are such
things as homosexuals who are only devoted (sexually and otherwise) to one other
same sex person, but that still doesn't make it right.
(Derek) They are purely selfish in their desires and in fulfilling them.
(Joe) They may actually want to please their partner too, but it is still wrong.
There is a way which seems right unto man, but in the end it leads to death.
Psalms or Proverbs.
(Derek) If I were to say something similar about straight people I would be
hounded off the list in a second.
(Joe) Let's get this straight... right now. ANY sex outside of God's marriage
guidelines is sin. There is such a thing as heterosexual sin. 
(Derek) Treat people as individuals with their own lives, their own stories to
tell, stories which are worth hearing and may have something to teach us all.
(Joe) I'm willing to hear... tell me... but I won't refrain from speaking the
truth... When you say "with their own lives." Well, if they are Christians,
their life is not their own. And if they are not and are unwilling to submit to
Christ, then it doesn't matter what they do from an eternal point of view. On
the other hand, by not speaking the truth to everyone, I AM JUDGING THEM, by not
allowing them to make there own decision for themselves based on the truth. If I
withhold the truth, then there blood is on my hands. If I tell the truth, then
there blood is on there own hands by there own choice.
(Derek)  That, Steve, and Joe, would be an enormous gift you could give us,
which would be of great value to the entire body of Christ. 
(Joe) Au contraire, If you are a Christian, the greatest value you could have,
ESPECIALLY to the body of Christ, is to speak the truth and help to save those
from being entangled. If you are not within the body of Christ, and are speaking
from outside of it, then I understand (yet don't agree with) where you are
coming from. If you yourself claim to be a Christian, where do you get your
authority to keep me from speaking the truth? Surely not the Bible. What did
Jesus do when sin was brought up... speak the truth! He even brought up the sin
himself sometimes... the woman at the well...
I hope not to come across as arrogant, but if you are a Christian, maybe you
should spend some time asking God about these things. If you ask, and truly
believe, you will get an answer. Seek on, brother. For more... please see the
post for today... judgment vs. discernment.
God bless,
Joe <><



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Re: homophobia (not really limited to that)

From: "Peter T. Chattaway" <petert at interchange_ubc.ca>

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