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Re: karin, poles, trilogies, and machines

> > this notion that Christians have no right to judge is silly when the
> > Bible clearly lays out a set of standards by which we are instructed
> > (hence the term "bible") to hold ourselves and others to.

Hence the term?  Uh, no.  "Bible" simply means "book".

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?bible=Dictionary&va=bible

> Two questions: First, what, then, do "judge not, lest you yourself be
> judges", "let him who is without sin cast the first stone", and all the
> instances where Jesus commanded forgiveness mean to you?

I can't resist pointing out that the "without sin" passage appears in a
story which floats around in the ancient manuscripts (it appears in three
different places in John and in the gospel of Luke as well) and sometimes
does not appear at all.  Some would argue that that passage therefore
doesn't belong in the Bible at all.  Personally, I think it nicely
captures one aspect of Jesus' teachings, and I'm sympathetic to Thomas
Cahill's theory as to how the passage ended up where it is.

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/cahill/desire_excerpt.html

As for the "judge not" bit, Jesus does qualify that command by saying that
we will be judged by the same standard that we apply to other people.  
So, arguably, if you're being fair and consistent, and judging yourself by
the same standard you apply to others, there may not be a problem there.

   Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge
   others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be
   measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your
   brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How
   can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,'
   when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite,
   first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly
   to remove the speck from your brother's eye. -- Matthew 7:1-5

So Jesus isn't exactly saying that specks and planks should stay where
they are.  You *can* remove the speck from your brother's eye.  Just make
absolutely sure that you haven't got any planks in your own, first.

Meanwhile, Paul seems to give us conflicting signals on the whole question
of judging.  On the one hand, he tells us:

   What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you
   not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the
   wicked man from among you." -- I Corinthians 5:12-13

But just one chapter before that, he writes:

   I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed,
   I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not
   make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing
   before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to
   light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's
   hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. -- I
   Corinthians 4:3-5

So in some contexts, judging is good, but in others, it is bad, I guess.

> It seems to me that if the Christian life means to follow Jesus, he
> didn't leave his followers any room to be judgemental.

Ah, but there's a difference between "judging" and "being judgmental".
Just as there's a difference between "arguing" and "being argumentative".

--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- peter at chattaway_com ---
 "I detected one misprint, but to torture you I will not tell you where."
      Winston Churchill to T.E. Lawrence, re Seven Pillars of Wisdom

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