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my record, your record


> F*** stands for "Fred."  :)

it all makes sense now...
 
> I can *feel* the objection to using "gay" that way. 

ooh.  we're gonna talk taboo...

> using "Jesus!" in the exact same way we use "Shit!"?
>  That's okay?  Or
> we're supposed to accept it because it's common and
> everybody knows
> people who use it aren't thinking of Jesus but of a
> common exclamation
> for surprise and outrage.  But in the same way, with
> the same
> un-consciousness, people invoke "gay" for "silly,
> airheaded, out of
> touch."  Neither one is meant to harm.

i intellectually agree.  still, since identity is
often created/affirmed through language/words, people
are going to choose to omit and add these words
from/to their vocabulary...to make their statement, to
assert who they are.  that's slightly more touchy than
a rational concept of language and truth.  we're
simply not that intellectual in the day to day
carrying out of life.  dettached to be attached to an
idea: a hefty task.

movements of political correctness have to do with
words falling in and out of favor (dysphemism and
euphemism).  it seems so relative, but regardless of
that, there is great power of expression through
language.  it's how we relate to everything; hence
relativity...but the debate even within me always
boils down to who the reference point really is...is
it infinitely me?--or is it infinitely god (even
though i'll understand it in a filtered manner).

ya know, we can talk about language being arbitrary;
but the point here is that there is certain common
knowledge we all have.  sociolinguistic competency. 
we know that you don't say/do certain things to
certain people.  you don't extend your left hand to a
muslim (sociolinguistic text is more than verbal
language, btw).  you don't discuss sex at length with
your parents (most likely).  you don't say "fat"
around fat people.  there is a lot you don't do.  we
pretty much know the rules without thinking much about
it.  that's where this debate lies.  should be think
more?

we, on this list, have the adventurous priviledge of
not being exactly common.  we have exploratory people
coming from many places, christian, homosexual etc. 
still, there is some little bit of common knowledge. 
where we are not sure, we clarify--we are negociating
it right here and now ("gay," "Jesus!").

> But, then, the real problem is not in the use of the
> words but in the
> derision poured on Christians who object, who are
> then considered uptigh
> and out of touch.

yeah, but if you get a big enough mass of these
uptight people (heh heh, that's me), what they say
will end up gospel.  and then you can all say "gay,"
right?...or is it that simple?  i'd wager it isn't.

> "gay" this way.  But I
> might be wrong about that.  Haven't been in high
> school in a while.  

no, you're right.  my students use it all the time. 
also, "bootleg" is bad.  "ghetto" is crass.  "off the
chain," and anything rhyming with "eeze/eezey" is
good.  things rhyming with "izzle" are coming into
their own too :)

it's fun to teach high school.

> So we could ban the use of this form of "gay," and,
> as things have been,
> we can keep going, and them other words can still be
> okay.  Some
> impoliteness will be more equal than other sorts of
> impoliteness.  

right.  offend the individual will and you're damned. 
now, offend the god of the universe, and it's all
good.  i mean, of course, he's not catering to each
self, glorifying us, so "no hay problema."

> Or there's an easy solution that says, "Fine.  Y'all
> over there stop
> saying 'gay,' and y'all over there stop saying
> 'Jesus' as a curse word. 
> And we'll all be fine."
> 
> I guess I'd accept that.

take those words out and others (what we would
currently consider a little better--which will soon
change in our estimation and get worse) will replace
them.

still, maybe we should all just be more careful of
what we say in general...maybe we should actually
"think" more.  i say this with "balance" still in
mind.

> and they will
> always reveal certain
> things about their users.

yeah, the identity thang.

> Like "Jean Baudrillard."  I know something about
> anyone who says "Jean
> Baudrillard."

oh my.  yes.

> I've gotten nowhere.

such is never the case, methinks.  we gotta get out of
our linear mindsets.  c'mon, fred.  reject that
patriarchical hegemony and believe that from A to B
may not be a straight line.  ha ha.

> That is all.

i should take this clue,
marie

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