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Re: Warning, off-topic Jesus stuff


--- Don Smith <dasmith at rotse2_physics.lsa.umich.edu>
wrote:
> 
> It seems to me that a *lot* of what he did was to
> shake up the establishment
> and rock fundamentalism (attacking the temple
> grounds, violating the sabbath
> laws, etc.). 

First of all, anytime you see Jesus "attacking" a
Pharisee or other religious nut was as a response to
what they have done or said.  He didn't just call them
out, say "come here, you Pharisee" and then proceed to
lambast them.  He didn't seek them out for that.  They
get out of line and say or do something stupid, he
reacts - often in a way that humiliates the soup out
of them.  
As for violating the sabbath and that sort of thing -
You have to remember that Jesus had a great respect
for the Law.  Once again, his purpose there was to
meet some greater need in someone or a group of
people.  This gave him the opportunity to then teach
that the Sabbath was made for man, not the other way
around.  
I would once again say that any time we see Jesus
doing something that rocks fundamentalism it is either
in response to pharisaical stupidity or motivated by a
greater need.

 And as far as his motivations for hanging out
> "there", I'm not sure we
> can be so glib about their simplicity.  It strikes
> me that your position is
> more based on your assumptions about Jesus (as well
> as about "those places")
> than on specific textual references.

My position is based on scripture, looking not just at
the instances themselves, but also the greater context
of Jesus' life and ministry.
It strikes me that your statement is based on your
assumptions about me, and you don't know me. 

  Sure, he says
> the sick, not the healthy,
> need physicians, but I don't think the implicatons
> of that saying are as
> obvious or universal as people often make them out
> to be.

I would probably disagree, but that's fine...

  Sometimes we see him
> say things like "go, and sin no more" (although that
> pericope may be
> apocryphal), but other times he's just *there* (or
> they came to him).  To the
> woman in Luke 7, he simply says "go in peace".  In
> Matthew 9 (cf. Mark 2),
> there's no indication that he does more than just
> eat with the tax collectors
> and sinners.  He says "but go and learn what this
> means: 'I desire mercy, not
> sacrifice'."

I think I understand what you're getting at here...
Not all of these instances contain a conversion.  Is
that it?  However, in each of them Jesus is about
establilshing a relationship, meeting a need, giving
comfort, revealing himself to someone, etcetera and so
on.  I think he would be just as likely to do
something "radical" in order to establish a
relationship with someone as he would to see them
"converted".

   the Johannian gospel implies
> that he had a fair number of
> wealthy friends.  Why didn't he tell
> Mary/Martha/Lazarus, or Joseph of
> Arimathea for that matter, to sell all they have?

When Jesus instructed the rich young man to give away
all he had, he wasn't concerned with the man's wealth
as much as he was with the fact that his money was the
one thing that prevented him from following Christ. 
If he had an obsessive love of Poast Toasties that
kept him from following Christ, Jesus would not have
mentioned his money but would have said "Stop eating
Post Toasties."
Obviously Mary, Martha, and Lazarus weren't placing
their wealth and possessions over their relationship
with Christ.  It wasn't a hiderance so there was no
need to get rid of it.
 
> I'm not claiming to have an
> answer, here, only that I'm not sure the answer is
> obvious, and I often have
> the nagging feeling that people who express your
> position are projecting their
> own morality onto the text.

And why would you say this about me and not yourself?
Once again, you're wrong in your assumption.
But I can live with that.

> 
> Just musing.  Hope I haven't offended,

Got my dander up a little, but didn't offend.

Kelvin

=====
"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy that sustained him during temporary periods of joy."
                               -- W.B. Yeats

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