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Re: Defense...love...and happier things...

Steve said:

"True, and I personally agree with you, but I think
the argument that others are trying to make is that
we, as a nation, should hold certain ethical 
molds no matter what the situation."

JM-->i don't disagree.  as to the substance of them
though...the form, the consistent traits that don't
sway and move, it'd be difficult to nail down a
prototype.  when we start talking logistics, it could
easily become, "but this is how we did it in this
instance...didn't _truly_ compromise the ideal etc."  

it's not all black and white is what i'm saying, and
the carrying out of such ideals has a context.

i also wouldn't advocate a permanent suspension of
even some of the smaller liberties we enjoy here.  my
thing is that i'd be willing to give up some for some
time.

Steve:
"Otherwise, we become as bad as those 
that we 
are trying to defend ourselves against.  While this
makes sense 
ideologically, practically we have to focus on those
things that pose 
the 
greatest and most imminent threat."

JM-->and when we take care to investigate what makes
up the myriad of each of our personal world views and
then political ideas, there are hierarchies and
priorities.  we don't all have the same ones.  my
personal passion and confrontational stands for "not
being as bad as those threatening me" might be
different than many peoples'.

with regard to your clarifications about defense
spending, i agreed with you more or less.  from what i
see and hear, i think on smaller levels, there is a
gradual move to do as you are saying with regard to
prioritizing the personnel.  many people in uniform
working on policy and advocating this and that agree
with you.  i see it in the civilian areas
too--initiatives to replace their upper management
especially since there will soon be a mass retirement
exodus.  it'll be interesting to see how it goes.

[re: some scary invasion]
Steve:
"Huh?  I am curious about your reasoning behind this
assertion.  "Invasion or something" is pretty vague."

JM-->yeah, and it's probably in part that emotional
fear about slippery slopes etc.  i'm thinking also in
a very long-term sense.  it's not inconcievable to
me...(i do not think it means what you think it means
:)  )  

Steve:
"Who would invade us?  How?  Why?  I could 
see a 
lowering of defenses as a possible invitation to
terrorists, but 
invasion, at 
least militarily, I don't think so."

JM-->i think so b/c power is what it is.  lust for it
is what it is.  people are what they are.  perhaps in
our lifetimes it would be nothing but terrorism, but
that can lead to plenty of other things in later eras.
 

JM (last post):
> but he came back from the middle east with an
> impression: that the way to keep peace is to have
> strength enough that it need not be used or that it
be
> used rarely.

Steve:
"Interesting.  I think though that this is the same
mentality that began 
WWI 
and the Cold War.  Tht is if I understand your point
correctly."

JM-->maybe it was, but that doesn't mean it's
applicable in all times, situations and cultures. 
that's just a small-level, anecdotal opinion to add to
the lot.  and as a reasonable, educated man, my father
is that "everyman" who we put so much confidence in
anyway, right? :)  people aren't stupid, right? :) 
<big smirks all around>

anyway, my point is that even on a personal level,
this observation has been made; and it's consistent
with some of the policies coming forth or approaches
already in place that most civilians know very little
about.

Steve:
"Also, I have read a bit of the Quran, and I cannot
claim to be a scholar or anything, but I'm not sure if
it is any more violent in and of itself than much of 
the Bible.  I think that actions are determined more
by focus and interpretation than anything else.  Then
again, this is just my very amateur opinion."

JM-->i'm not a scholar in the area either.  here's my
take with what i've take in so far though: in some
cases the interpretation factor might be key, but
overall i don't feel comfortable saying that
absolutely.  this could be a huge and dangerous
discussion in and of itself.  i'll say this though: in
the christian bible there is a process of redemption
happening (and still happening i believe).  the
transfer of letter to spirit is not an islamic trait
from what i have read or studied.  those are different
ways to perceive the violence or crudeness of any
text...in light the entire text.

Steve:
"How Goes the World?  The World Goes Not Well.  But
the Kingdom Comes..."

JM-->i sincerely agree.

take care,
j. marie



=====
All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and the change is painful. -Flannery O'Connor

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