[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: poptarts with a twist of lennon

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Dan Temmesfeld wrote:

> > . . . when Israel subjugated Moab, it was, from Israel's point of
> > view, because Yahweh had given the Moabites into their hands, while,
> > from Moab's point of view, it was because Chemosh was punishing his
> > Moabites ... but the underlying reasons for the conflict were more
> > political and economic than religious, I would think.
>
> your first line about Israel's view that Yahweh giving the Maobites into
> their hands shows from your fingers that that the war *was* about
> religion.

Uh, no.  Israel and Moab both interpreted the war along religious lines,
each seeing it through the eyes of their own gods, and the kings certainly
sought divine guidance, through oracles and so on.  But I don't think the
war was *about* religion.  I don't think the war needed any greater
motivation than the desire to be stronger than one's neighbour.

Incidentally, for those who aren't familiar with this war, the Moabite
side of the story is available to us through a document that was
discovered just over a century ago, and the Israelite side of the story
appears in II Kings 3.  I wrote an essay comparing the two accounts for a
university course several years ago, and it's on my web site:

   http://peter.chattaway.com/articles/moabite.htm

   [ snip ]

   Both sides of the battle claim to be sent by their respective deities.
   Mesha says that Kemosh told him to take this town and that town, though
   he does not say how he was told this. As soon as the Israelite army
   runs out of water, Jehoram claims that "the LORD called us three kings
   together only to hand us over to Moab" (3:10); later, he repeats the
   claim to justify his demand for a prophecy from the prophet of YHWH and
   not the Baal prophets (3:13). This is rather interesting, as the text
   itself never claims that YHWH ordered the campaign prior to Elisha's
   prophecy. Mesha may have had prophets devoted to Kemosh, as there seem
   to be prophets for Baal and other non-Israelite deities, though he does
   not say so in his stele.

   Both accounts speak of total destruction of the other's towns, both
   property and citizens. Mesha boasts of killing "all the people" of
   Atarot as well as Nebo's "whole population, seven thousand male
   citizens and aliens, and female citizens and aliens, and servant
   girls", and says he did this because he "had put it to the ban for
   Ashtar Kemosh." Similarly, the Israelites are said to have "invaded the
   land and slaughtered the Moabites. They destroyed the towns, and each
   man threw a stone on every good field until it was covered. They
   stopped up all the springs and cut down every good tree." (3:24-25)
   This wholesale destruction is a staple feature of the Deuteronomistic
   History, and it appears in revised accounts of previous Israelite
   conquests too. Num 21:25 claims that the Israelites "captured ... and
   occupied" the cities governed by Sihon, but Deut 2:34-35 claims, "At
   that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them -- men,
   women and children. We left no survivors. But the livestock ... we
   carried off for ourselves." No reference is made there to occupation,
   and the NIV footnote says that the word translated as "destroyed"
   refers to "the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the
   LORD, often by totally destroying them." In this, then, the Israelites
   and the Moabites shared a common religious and military practice.

   Mesha also speaks of taking "the vessels of YHWH ... before the face of
   Kemosh", an act that parallels David's dedication of captured Moabite
   articles to YHWH (II Samuel 8:11). And, just as Kings interprets
   Israel's misfortunes and ultimate destruction as the judgment of YHWH,
   who "was not willing to forgive" (II Kings 24:2-4), Mesha claims that
   Moab's former oppression was brought on Moab because "Kemosh was angry
   with his land."

--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- peter at chattaway_com ---
 If true love never did exist how could we know its name? -- Sam Phillips
          Happiness happens but I want joy. -- Marjorie Cardwell

---------------
Unsubscribe by going to http://www.actwin.com/OtR/
References: