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Re: Radio whom?? (stuff about prayer)

I am now entrigued with the idea of the creative power of words.  The book 
of John even states that the universe was created through the spoken Word of 
God, doesn't it?  I think it is true that spoken prayer can be a creative 
force, at least in a person's mind.  For instance, if someone is praying for 
"strength" to make through a tough situation couldn't it be the very request 
courage or patience or what have you that creates that very attitude and 
subsequent energy that's derived.  Another example of the creative power of 
words is song lyrics.  I had a terrible job not too long ago and the only 
way I was able to endure it  was because they let me listen to a walkmen.  
Sometimes I felt like a slave singing spirituals just to make it through the 
night, but the amazing thing was that after a prolonged period of time my 
whole attitude and thinking changed from merely listening over and over 
again to musicians with something to say (OTR being one of them of course).  
So, yes indeed we must pray for our own sake more than for God's, but I'm 
still not totally convinced that there isn't some sort of at least desire in 
God that isn't fullfilled through our relationship with Him through prayer.  
By the way, for Pete's sake, if God didn't need to create us then it must 
have been His choice to do so and thus God has a form of free will.  If 
needed to create us then maybe He doesn't have free will and then Marie has 
a kinds of theological problems to sort out:))))))


>From: "J. Marie Hall" <fionaeval at yahoo_com>
>To: ryan richards <randomricky at hotmail_com>, over-the-rhine at actwin_com
>CC: petert at interchange_ubc.ca
>Subject: Re: Radio whom?? (stuff about prayer)
>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
>
>hi ryan and list,
>
> > First, of
> > course God is "behind"
> > whatever action He wants done in the physical world.
>
>sure...i wasn't contradicting this idea...only the
>idea that he "needs" a natural, physical being/person
>to enact his deeds, however supernatural many of them
>might be.
>
> > commands.  Also, God must have "thought" the world
> > into existence and
> > there's no way I'm gonna even try and explain that
> > one.
>
>that's supernatural action though.  plus, he actually
>_spoke_ it into being--as i think all sociolinguists
>will agree, that's definite action.
>
> > Second, I don't
> > know what you by the following:
> >
> > >---> i don't think he needs anything, but i think
> > it's
> > >his relational/love character that makes free moral
> > >agency a real part of the experience.
>
>i meant that we do not meet some "need" in him (the
>way we generally think of needs)...he would not be
>incomplete without us (in terms of some power in our
>agency).
>
>yes, i believe he is desperate for us but that he
>loves powerfully b/c of the intrinsic nature of his
>being.  it's who he is...not b/c we're so great or
>anything :)  but yet he made us precious.
>
>i think the point i'm trying to make is about where
>the glory points in any aspect or offshoot of any
>issue related to god and/or us.
>
> > things, but there is also the passage stating "You
> > receive not because you
> > ask not."
>
>i've been thinking about this, and i believe it
>doesn't contradict the idea that prayer is more for
>us.  that we ask not could be the fruit of a lack of
>awareness or acceptance of our outright need.
>
>in the beatitudes, jesus talks about the poor of
>spirit.  this poverty has to do with an honest
>humility that recognizes it's utter and essential need
>(not with a lack of depth in spirit).
>
>maybe we do not receive b/c we are not in a place to.
>our petition is a verbal assertion of that need that
>is perhaps more beneficial to us than to the god of
>the universe (in terms of needs being met).  i think
>he's pretty aware of our need :)  that _we_ know it is
>imperative if we are to receive from him.
>
>and that's a question of position (and in part with
>repentance--very much tied to the humility etc).  if
>you want to give me a present, i have to be facing
>you, near you, with my arms outstretched and/or hands
>open, physically able to take it from your hands.
>
>as it is with god, i have to be repentant/humble/aware
>of my need (repent means to turn and go the other way,
>towards god)--facing him, desiring him (arms
>outstretched etc.)/near him (he will draw near to us
>if we draw near to him)...so it's a position thing.
>
>prayer helps us do that.  just as god has creative and
>redemptive power in his words, i think there is
>something very powerful about our own.  even our
>groans :)
>
>just a few  more cents,
>j. marie
>
>=====
>All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and the 
>change is painful. -Flannery O'Connor
>
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