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Re: war...

Dude. You have a problem giving props where props are due.
	We have a president now who respects the office and is doing a
stellar job even before this thing happened. Did you happen to catch his
speech last night? Unlike Bill Clinton, Bush doesn't salivate at the
chance to be in front of the camera. He's not a photo-op president. Nor
is he pompous, he's quite humble and self-effacing. And a partiot.
	Obviously if you don't think he's eloquent then you haven't
listened to him speak. (Ill make sure to spel chek evrything for yoo.)
	We got a guy in the midst of a  building bombing and you're
bringing up his school record.
	I'll  bet you count out your breakfast cheerios individualy too!
	You don't want to hear this, but he often does not use a
teleprompter. Ol' Clinton makes sure that's the first thing packed.
	Who has a small mind?

>Well, for me it's his poor school record combined with his total lack of
mastery of the English language unless it's been written out for him
beforehand.  Oh, he's a skillful politician, no doubt, but 
>intelligent?  I don't think so.  He's no Jefferson.

>The horrific irony in all this is that Arab hatred of Jews is a 
>uniquely late 20th century phenomenon.  Muslims and Jews lived side by
side in peace and harmony for over a thousand years.  Muhammed called on
his followers to treat the "peoples of the book" (Christians and Jews)
with respect, because they worshipped the same god.  Granted, they were
second class citizens, 
>but only second class.  Pagans had absolutely no rights.  Muslims never
perpetuated pogroms, ghettos, or extermination camps against the Jews. 
Those were all European phenomena.  So-called Christendom.  It was the
creation of the state of Israel, and more, the manner of its creation,
that got the Muslim world upset.  They see it as yet another Western
crusader state, like those of the middle ages, when the streets of
Jerusalem ran ankle-deep in the blood of the inhabitants slaughtered by
the Europeans.  And now the European anti-semitism is starting to make
in-roads into Islam, which is tragic.  I've even heard that "The
Protocols of the Elders of Zion" has become widely read and quoted, and
that's a Russian forgery that claims to be a conspiracy document, showing
that the Jews are out to take over the world.

++++    You're making this harder than it has to be... Jesus/The one true
God is the problem between the jews and the muslims. They DON'T serve the
same God according to Christians and Jews.
	God promised the land of Isreal to the Jews and the palistinians
say their God promised it to them. Who's God is right?
	The jews want to rebuild the temple of the Old Testemant again.
The palistinian's want to build their temple on the same spot.
	Each is considered a direct afront to the other's religion. Do
you all understand why there will never be peace in this region? Treaty's
may as well be used for toilet paper?
	Because we are a Christian nation we have gone to Isreal's
defense, which has set ourselves against almost every other Muslim
nation.
	Oh well.
	They hate capitolism which is what we stand for, we pump a lot of
sin in this country, which they hate. Which can hold some merrit, we
should be a more   moral nation, but then they went and tried to correct
a wrong with a wrong.
	But I also never read anything in my Bible that says that they
should be the financial super power.

>> Since you won't go for profiling, what (if any) solution can you 
>give? 
>
>Investigation and evidence.

++++    Also called profiling.

  Innocent until proven guilty.

++++    Also within the boundaries of profiling.

  What so many people don't seem to realize is that if you give that up,
the wheels of beurocracy can grind you up as well.  The people who
support this are so sure that 
>only "them"are going to get profiled that they don't care.  After all,
"we" are never going to do anything worthy of profiling for.

++++    Ignorant.

 Haven't you ever had a false charge on a bill?  Glitches happen.  See
Brazil.  See it twice.  Then see The Net (bad movie, but it is chilling
in the realistic way people simply think "if it's in the computer, it
must be true").  If one of us is not safe, than all of us are not safe. 
Remember that poem that goes "they came for the jews, and I
>didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew"?  It goes on like that for 
>several lines, substituting another group for "Jew" each time, and then
it ends "then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up". 
We cannot afford to give in to profiling.  The cost is too high.

++++    You've been taken in by a media buzz word. It's funny. What
you're talking about isn't profiling, it's heavy handed tactics gestopo
brutality. Yeah be mad at that, be indignant about police unfairness and
brutality.
	Profiling at it's worst is suspecting or questioning an innocent
person of a crime they didn't commit. Notice I didn't say convicted?
Notice I didn't say tried? Notice I didn't say sentenced?
	People who are not any of the above things are free to go, yet
they may be brought in on the basis of skin color, religion, or any other
similarity with the other 22 men already found guilty of some
involvement. And there's nothing wrong with that, only good police work.
	Racial profiling doesn't exist. Profiling does. Don't be dupped
folks. Know the news you're swallowing!

	
>
>> Um look at the whole Palestinian conflict.  It certainly appears to be
more than 1 vile terrorist that doesn't agree with the people you know. 
>
>Yeah, it's called the State of Israel.  Okay, let's look at the *whole*
>Palestinian conflict.  Say you're a Palestinian Arab.  You and your 
>relatives have lived in a country for over 1300 years.  Let's let that
number roll around in our brains for a bit: ONE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED
YEARS.  Then along come these western states, who have been invading you
periodically for about a thousand years, and (a) carve up your country
and give it to a bunch of foreign refugees,

++++    by foriegn refugees, I'm guessing you mean the jews?

 whose plight you had nothing to do with, (b) force you out of your
>homes and cities, and then (c) invade and occupy the half of the 
>country you had left and subjugate you to oppressive terror and
violence.  Wouldn't you be pissed off?  There have been resolution after
resolution in the UN against the occupation, but nothing happens.  Why? 
Because the US supports Israel and tells the rest of the world to go f*&k
itself, like we *always* do.  Like we did when the world court convicted
us of war crimes in Nicaragua in the 80s.
>The Muslim world sees the US pummel Iraq and Kosovo under the umbrella
of UN resolutions, but completely ignore resolutions with regard to
Palestine.  Is it any wonder they think we are racist hypocrites?

++++    Yes! And I'm glad I belong to a country that's big enough to help
the underdog. Isreal. It all boils down to religion and what you believe.
For years the social elite have done all they can to keep national
politics and religion separate, but that is no longer possible.
	We the US have sided with Isreal primarily based on religious
reasons. We view the palistinians as pests, which is exactly what they
are! Nothing is keeping them from becoming a nation! Nothing! They want
the land that Isreal owns. They want the holy temple ground for
themselves.
	Ever have a little brother or sister playing with you, they can
have any toy in the room, yet they want the one you are playing with?
	Not to mention the fact that God said the Jews were his chosen
people. So many major govt's want them exterminated and dealt with
because of their high status with God.
	I personally think of palestinians the same as Isreals enemy in
the Bible. They are misaligned pests who cry they can't have their own
nation because the Isrealits are on their property.
	Well try and get it and you'll have the US to deal with. The jews
have been as you say f%*$ked with enough.

>	And I am really sick of people talking about Muslim Americans as
if they were somehow less American than Christian and/or Caucasian
Americans.  As if "they" were in "our" country.  If they're American
citizens, it's their country, too.

++++    Only by aproximation. They didn't, maybe wouldn't fight for the
freedoms our fathers did. Coming here and using our resources, and free
government programs and making an illegal tax free income does not a true
American citizen make.
>
>I'm not even going to address WS's racist comments except to say that it
was like a slap in the face to see the word "raghead" on this list when I
checked in this morning.  I would hope we could avoid that in the future.
 Not because it's not PC, but because it's mean and stupid.

++++    Don't call me a racist, man. You like to over react. The first
time I heard raghead was when I was on break at work. A muslim, illegally
here in this country, called an irishman a "limey", he in return called
him a raghead. I thought it was funny. Back and forth banter at break
time. I'm not touchy about that stuff.
	This muslim guy used to brag about all the free stuff he could
milk the government for, he knew everything! Stuff I wouldn't even take
the time to figure out. He was a fee-loading parasite. I don't really
care what his religion or color is. I don't like him. And I want him out
of the country. Wether he gets his green card or not, he's not an
American. No apologies mate.
	I think bombing our trade center was mean and stupid.

WS

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