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Re: Miami Herald
On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Kelvin Bailey wrote:
> > People just don't get up in the morning and decide to be terrorists.
>
> Well guess what...They DECIDED to come over and kill thousands of
> innocent people. They DECIDED to do evil. The DECIDE it on a regular
> basis. What the CRAP are you trying to say here?
I think it's obvious that Don is saying that the terrorists' decision to
terrorize America -- to do evil -- was not made in a vacuum. You're
focusing on the second part of his sentence and not the first, which is
where the strength of his argument lies -- people don't just wake up and
think to themselves, "Hmm, maybe I should blow up two of the world's
tallest buildings today. I don't have anything *better* to do..."
It's not as arbitrary as that. There's usually *some* sort of reason.
> > If we insist on pretending that they are irrational, inhuman, and
> > beyond the pale . . .
>
> So now I'm supposed to believe that what these beasts do on a regular
> basis is rational . . .
Well, you have to admit, their plan *was* brilliant, and it worked. But
Don is talking about people, and you are talking about actions.
> . . . humane . . .
There's a difference between being human and being humane.
> . . . and completely acceptable. How naive!
Where did Don even *hint* that what they did was "completely acceptable"?
Methinks you're over-reacting.
> > Unless America really looks at our own culpability in acts of terror
> > around the world, and makes changes to stop it, this will happen
> > again.
>
> I am so damned sick of hearing people bend over backwards to try to find
> our "culpability" in this. There is none. We got up to go to
> work/school/wherever last week, thinking it was a typical blah day, and
> were instead victims of the most horrendous act of violence imaginable.
> How the crap to you figure that we are responsible?!?
Hmmm, I wonder if the concept of "the banality of evil" comes into play
here ...
> > . . . as long as American-made weapons kill innocent
> > Palestinians . . .
>
> Yeah, that's exactly what we intended to happen.
Is what you "intended" all that relevant, though? The road to hell is
paved with you-know-what, after all. So long as Americans continue to
give weapons to the Israelis, knowing that the Israelis have used them in
this manner, America can't claim to be ignorant of the possible
consequences of continuing to give Israel these weapons.
> > Sure, we do good things in the world, too, but to pretend that we've
> > done *nothing* to make someone this angry at us; that these people
> > were *just* crazy, evil, madmen... that's not going to make the
> > problem go away.
>
> Yeah, we do things to hack people off. Been doing it for years. Fer
> instance, we let the Nazis know they couldn't continue their reign of
> terror, and they hated us for it. Making people angry isn't an
> indication that we are doing wrong.
You forget, though, that one of the reasons the Nazis came to power in the
first place is that the Allies -- including the United States -- did
everything they could to wound Germany's pride following the First World
War. The rise of Naziism was, in part, a response to that. After the
*Second* World War, the Allies changed their tune, and did what they could
to *help* Germany, the western half of it anyway, regain some sense of
economic and political self-esteem, through the Marshall Plan.
--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- peter at chattaway_com ---
"I detected one misprint, but to torture you I will not tell you where."
Winston Churchill to T.E. Lawrence, re Seven Pillars of Wisdom
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