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to judge or not to judge (Was: Karin, poles, triologes, machines)


Thanks in advance for the serious inquiry!  I appreciate it!

>From: Don Smith <dasmith at rotse2_physics.lsa.umich.edu>
>
>Two questions: First, what, then, do "judge not, lest you yourself
>be judges", "let him who is without sin cast the first stone",
>and all the instances where Jesus commanded forgiveness mean to
>you?  That's a serious question.  It seems to me that if the
>Christian life means to follow Jesus, he didn't leave his followers
>any room to be judgmental.

Well, I'm not ready with a prepared response or anything, but there are 
clearly standards that the Bible delineates and wisdom guides that are 
designed to enable believers to 1) have a sort of barometer with which to 
measure the "righteousness" of human behavior so as to discern true 
believers from the wicked, and 2) protect these believers from corruption 
and victimization at the hand of unjust men.  Think about it, is our 
criminal justice system an abomination to the Lord?  Is a judge in a court 
of law committing an offense against God by presuming to act in His stead?  
(Maybe an executioner is, but that's a whole different issue.)

Perhaps when Jesus commanded us to not judge he meant we shouldn't condemn a 
man, especially when merely taking them at face value.  Certainly, only God 
knows the heart of a man, but a believer, making an informed assessment with 
divine guidance, is capable of at least determining if a person is not, at 
the present state, in the right place spiritually.  In other words, I don't 
think he meant that we shouldn't be discerning of others.

Of the top of my head, I can think of Paul admonishing believers to not even 
"break bread" with a believer that is sexually impure, which is seemingly 
"judgmental" behavior.  (Read the fifth chapter of Corinthians.*)  Also off 
the top of my head, scripture says that, "the fool hath said in his heart, 
there is no God", which makes me pretty confident that I can declare George 
Carlin to be a fool without fear of repercussions for on high.  Also, I have 
Sirach in my Bible, and it tells me I shouldn't extend kindness to an unjust 
man, for to do so will earn me no favor with God.  Obviously, I'd have to be 
discerning to determine who is just versus who isn't.  This is just off the 
top of my head, I reiterate, but it does make at least a bit of a point, 
right?  (I hate to sound like a broken record.)

Perhaps it is a matter of semantics, but the difference between being 
"judgmental" and being "discerning" would most likely be that the latter is 
not final.  (Altough being judgemental ncessarily entails discernment to a 
degree.) Only the Lord has the right to pass final judgment on a 
person/soul, or condemn.  (Final judgment entails things such as the 
aforementioned "cast the first stone.")  I have no problem with that notion. 
  It also doesn't preclude a person's right to forgiveness, btw.  You can 
forgive someone and still regard them as a fool, or an unjust man.  The 
point is to forgive them and then get them out of your life, before they can 
inflict any more damage.

Maybe Bill Maher will come to have a conversion the way Saul did on the road 
to Damascus.  Since that is a possibility, I have no right to condemn the 
him, but I can assess his current state as being a blind man in the clutches 
of evil.  Again, I base this assessment on criteria set forth in the Bible, 
and am justified by scripture.  Papal infallibility is available to all!

Second, why do you say "hence the
>term 'bible'"?  bible comes from the Greek "biblios", which
>simply means "book".  I don't see why one would say "hence" in
>this context.
>
Well, word origins are one thing, but in modern parlance the term means any 
"authoritative" book.  It is often used to describe handbooks and 
instruction manuals.  In that context, it fits what I was saying about how 
it instructs us regarding the standards we are to hold ourselves and others 
to.  Don't you think the Bible sets such standards?

>Thanks in advance for clarification,

No prob!  Here's a question for you, when a protestant/fudamentalist comes 
up to me and tells me I'm an idolater on the basis on my Catholicism and his 
understanding of scripture and church teachings on the Virgin Mary, is he 
being discerning or judgmental?  A true Christian, or a false one, breeding 
dissention?  When he tells me I'm going to hell 'cause the doctrinal system 
I subscribe to "perverts scripture", is that anywhere near the same thing as 
Kelvin calling Maher a "nightmare of a gene pool"?  (Fee free to not touch 
this question with a ten foot pole.)

* after I wrote this, I looked it up...5 Corinthians concludes by saying God 
will judge those outside the church, while we are to judge those on the 
inside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."  Apply that to my questions 
in the preceding paragraph....hummm....
Bill Maher was raised Catholic, btw.

enough dime-store theology...I am the sleepiest link...goodbye...

Matt
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