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Re: jaws

"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in
it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot
stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is
well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore." - Mark Twain

Pauli

----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred B Johnson <hoopyfrood at juno_com>
To: <paul_fry at email_msn.com>
Cc: <Over-the-Rhine at actwin_com>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: jaws


> > Why not both?
> >
> > Pauli
> >
> > Alfred B. Johnson wrote:
> > > It is only to say that the final and most important link in the
> > chain to
> > > have faith in the God of Christianity is experiential.  Not
> > logical.
>
> Well . . . this isn't prolly a good place to debate it, but I think that
> human logic, coming from finite human minds, can't really get to the
> infinite.  Which is to say, I think that we can build a lot of bridges
> and draw a lot of conclusions using human logic, but in the end there's a
> stretch between the end of human logic and the understanding of God.
> (*Understanding* is a problematic word here, of course, since it's all
> caught up in our culture's notion of *understanding* as total logical
> dissection . . . when understanding can happen in other ways.)
>
> I think the church in our culture, since the Enlightenment, has
> increasingly tried to apply Enlightenment logic to Christianity.  As if
> we can tally the numbers, put God in a test tube, and, voila, there it
> is, baby.  It's God, and we understand.  That's wrong.  There are
> mysteries in faith.  Mysteries are things we experience and understand
> without being able to explain.  And there are limits to human logic.
> There are limits to humanity's ability to formulate a perfect society.
>
> And the notion of human-made Utopia died at Hiroshima, so it's about time
> the church catches up with postmodernism and starts humbly recognizing
> the limits of merely human mind and merely human endeavors.
>
> This is not to say that I don't highly value logic.  I think we should go
> as far as we can with the minds we have.  There are many things to learn
> about God and scripture and the nature of faith that logic can help us
> learn.  But faith itself is not logical.  It's not emotional either.
> It's something like a mix of logic and emotion that is distinctly neither
> logic nor emotion.
>
> I know this because I've experienced it.
>
> I know this because others affirm my experience.
>
> I know this because I have experienced it with others.
>
> I know this because my experience of faith has been accompanied by God's
> faithfulness.
>
> But depending on logic alone, I can only conclude that God is dead, or
> irrelevant, because he won't fit in the test tube at all.  Won't fit in
> the lab.  Why factor in something we can't quantify?
>
>  . . . but faith answers: because we must . . .
>
> Look at all them worms, bubba.  Spillin' out everywhere.  All kinds of
> cans opened up.
>
> Over the Rhine is a good band.
>
> Fred
>
> PS: Do people really keep worms in cans?  Like tomato soup?
>
> NP: A-Ha, "Hunting High and Low"
>
>
>
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