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Cliques Are Us vs. Kyle's Withdrawal Symptoms

>Dear all,

we are rather dear, aren't we :)  in the acknowledgement of that and of 
course including helena, here are a few thoughts.

>contribute something interesting. So when I come back after a few weeks

>So if you like business as usual, carry on. If you would like this list to
>be a growing thriving community, think twice before you praise and defend
>mediocrity.
>
>I'll check back in a few weeks.

it's hard to prescribe when one is not contributing to that community.  
growing and thriving takes time and interaction... as a community.  it seems 
to me that your life provides only visitor opportunities (which is fine).

>contributor about haircuts, and offering tedious criticism on humor of all
>things,

i hate to be rude, but his few lines of thought (or whatever you might label 
his contributions ;-} ) aren't as tedious as our long messages.

>to cut and paste, who represents most things the band I came to enjoy has
>worked so hard to rise above? Things like cynicism, self-absorption,
>mediocrity, lack of originality, boredom, abrasiveness?

how do you know what they've worked so hard for?

>it appears that Kyle wouldn't have a life
>without Over the Rhine.

he doesn't post all that much-- there are 24 hours in a day if i'm not 
mistaken.

>It takes intelligence to build something. If Kyle really wanted to critique
>Over the Rhine, he could build something with his life like the members of
>Over the Rhine have done, something original that speaks for itself.

how do you know he hasn't?  not everyone displays their lives on stages.

>the world is. Their work speaks for them

what their work says to you is wonderful.  i'm glad you get a lot out of it. 
  i do too.  still, i can't expect their work to say the same things to 
everyone.  the world would be quite dull if it did.

>And now for the heart of the matter. If I get upset when I see people
>grossly mis-representing the spirit of Over the Rhine in this discussion

here's just one more instance of that prescriptive mentality that comes from 
basically no evidence whatsoever.  personal experience and opinion is 
wonderful, but a disclaimer is in order.  i think the main thing that 
bothers me about these posts is the omniscient attitude associated.  why is 
it that we can (mis)represent the band when that nature of representing 
something is already such a problem of authenticity?  i certainly don't 
speak for them.  and then their is the issue of their own 
artisitic/expressive consciousness.

>it's because I ask myself, What the hell is going on with this space that
>Over the Rhine provides

if you're going to warrant freedom and creativity, there must be a space.  
to hear an artist speak against such things is kind of odd.  and if they 
don't want this to continue, they may get rid of the list.

>Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to the music.

and that's fine.  no one is frustrated with an enthusiasm to discuss their 
music.  it's a welcomed contribution always.  i'm glad you bring that.

>Wake up call everybody. If you weren't so dumbed down day after day with
>Kyle's own lack of originality, you would recognize that there are dozens 
>of
>interesting things raised by Samantha's post.

what we realize and don't really isn't to be assessed by an individual who's 
practically never here.  it doesn't make any sense.  personally, someone who 
knows me and interacts with me has the right to speak into my life.  please 
don't feel discouraged by that.  get to know us, stick around.

>If these sorts of things or any number of relevant things are not being
>discussed because a few people want to ruin it for everybody

it doesn't have to be ruined.  there are many threads here.  and maybe 
you'll join in some discussion with people outside of the list setting.  
that happens too.

>I would be surprised if this discussion list isn't in the process of
>shrivelling up and dying.

you're not hoping for that, are you?

>Over the Rhine has a record out on Virgin. Walk
>into the Virgin Megastore in NYC in Union Square: they're playing Over the
>Rhine, there are records everywhere, they are getting played here in the
>city--where are all the new people? You know their site is getting 
>thousands
>of hits. Why isn't this place buzzing with new life and new ideas? Is this
>the only part of Over the Rhine that's not growing?

first, i think it's hard to say that we're part of over the rhine.  second, 
their experiences with virgin records are indicative of many things; but of 
the people who are faithful to attend their shows and post their opinions 
here, few encounter this new life.

>Hoping for the best

me too :)

-marie
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