[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Radio Satan

On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, ryan richards wrote:
> I think that Jesus was a Hellenized Jew via the mere fact that all of
> Palestine had been under Greek cultural influence for hundreds of years
> by that time.  It's virtually impossible that he wasn't.

I dunno, that's kinda like saying the Amish are Americanized.  Yeah, sure,
the Amish are subject to all sorts of cultural pressures simply by virtue
of being in America, but as I understand it, they do strongly resist
Americanization, and there are good reasons to believe that Palestinian
Jews like Jesus and James, etc., strongly resisted Hellenization.

It's worth remembering that Jesus led a rural sect within a Palestinian
context, while Paul and the other Christian missionaries led an urban cult
within a Greco-Roman context.  I do not use the terms "sect" and "cult" in
any pejorative sense, but in the sense that sociologists use these terms;
to quote from my summary of Rodney Stark's _The Rise of Christianity_:

   http://www.topica.com/lists/dadl-ot/read/message.html?mid=801879946

   [ snip ]

   Social Theory and Historical Reconstructions -- Distinguishes between
   "sects" ("religious groups in a relatively high state of tension with
   their environment") and "churches" ("groups in a relatively low state
   of tension"). Emphasizes that these concepts are names that describe
   observed phenomena, but are not explanations for said phenomena.

   [ snip ]

   Class, Sect, and Cult -- Distinguishes between "sects" ("occur by a
   schism within a conventional religious body when persons desiring a
   more otherworldly version of the faith break away to 'restore' the
   religion to a higher level of tension with its environment") and
   "cults" ("always start small -- someone has new religious ideas and
   begins to recruit others to the faith, or an alien religion is imported
   into a society where it then seeks recruits"). Sects tend to appeal to
   the poor and lower-class; cults tend to appeal to the privileged.

   [ snip ]

   Christianity as a Cult Movement -- Jesus led a sect movement within the
   context of Judaism; Paul and company led a cult movement within the
   context of the Roman Empire. Thus, Paul's converts likely came from the
   privileged classes.

   [ snip ]

If Jesus was the leader of a "sect" movement, then he was, in some sense,
breaking from the conventional religious organization of the day and
striving for "a more otherworldly version of the faith . . . to 'restore'
the religion to a higher level of tension with its environment".

And in this case, the "environment" that Jesus was resisting would have
included the Hellenistic or Hellenized culture of which you speak.

> Also consider his oposition to the religious leaders of his time.

Yes, like many other Jewish sectarians, he opposed the accomodationists
who were running the show at the Jerusalem Temple.

> My feeling is that part of this rebellion, if you will, came from
> humanistic Greek influences.

My feeling is quite the contrary.

> After all, Jesus was fully man as well as God and my personal reading of
> the gospels sees him ascerting his full humanity at times (especially
> when he was really pissed off).

You say this as though being really pissed off was not a divine quality.  
The Hebrew Bible (a.k.a. the Old Testament) suggests otherwise.

> Jesus, I think, was healthily in between the two as he was probably a
> master craftsman and builder . . .

If he was such a "master", would he have given up his trade to start a
religious movement?  ;)  It is worth noting, BTW, that the idea that Jesus
was a carpenter rests on a single word ("tekton") in a single verse in the
entire New Testament -- and since the word is used somewhat pejoratively
in that context, one scholar, John Dominic Crossan, has floated the
possibility that "tekton" was used not to indicate the profession within
which Jesus worked, but to indicate that he came from one of the lowest
classes -- he was not just a peasant, but a *landless* peasant.

--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- peter at chattaway_com ---
 "I detected one misprint, but to torture you I will not tell you where."
      Winston Churchill to T.E. Lawrence, re Seven Pillars of Wisdom

---------------
Unsubscribe by going to http://www.actwin.com/OtR/
References: