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FW: Falwell and Robertson blame gays and liberals for WTC Attack



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Ostrom [mailto:stormwing at chaosanity_com] 
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:07 PM
To: 'Peter T. Chattaway'
Subject: RE: Falwell and Robertson blame gays and liberals for WTC
Attack

I've been reading the list as I've watched TV today, and I've been
thinking it should come as no surprise that the people mentioned have a
certain belief in a "divine mandate" of some sort on our nation.  Even
the phrase "one nation under God" almost implies a theocratic philosophy
like that of the ancient Hebrews.  

The other thing that struck me is the resurrection of the use of
patriotic hymns like "America the Beautiful" and the Battle Hymn of the
Republic -- normally only trotted out by VERY old-school conservative
churches on the 4th or veteran's day.  The wording of these hymns
essentially comes right out with the opinion that God is on the side of
the US!!!  I've always found it inappropriate when these have been used
in churches, and now I know why.

It's clear in the Old Testament and even in bits of the new that the
Israelites are God's chosen people, but the overall tone of the New
Testament (from Jesus eating with pro-Roman officials and talking with
the Samaritan woman all the way through Acts and the Epistles -- mostly
written to non-Hebrew bodies of believers) that the Kingdom of God is
open to all who are led to enter it.

Now, I'm not going to say that God doesn't punish sin anymore, because
that would be both ridiculous and unbelievably presumptuous.  None of us
(except maybe Messrs. Falwell and Robertson, which is why they are so
offensive) claim to know the mind of God, but it's obvious that the
historical American mindset has presupposed Divine favor.

Which makes these events even more of a wake-up call to all of us.

Jefferson

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-over-the-rhine at actwin_com
[mailto:owner-over-the-rhine at actwin_com] On Behalf Of Peter T. Chattaway
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:53 PM
Cc: Over the Rhine listserv
Subject: Re: Falwell and Robertson blame gays and liberals for WTC
Attack

On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Kelvin Bailey wrote:
> --- rhys daily <shadow at teuton_org> wrote:

> > since when does God give precedence to one life over another? when
did
> > it become nations that wer eprotected, not people? jesus didn't die
> > for nations, masses of people bound by ideology or dictators or land
> > boundaries drawn by strangers, he didn't die for government
buildings
> > and deptartments. he died for people.
>
> That's a good question.  All through the Old Testament God blessed or
> cursed nations.  The history of Israel is full of their being blessed
> and cursed/destroyed as a nation.  I think the question you raised is,
> given the fact that those occurances were in the Old Testament and
under
> the Law, does God still act this way under grace?

Toss in there the fact that some New Testament scholars believe that
Jesus
predicted the destruction of Jerusalem at the hand of the Romans, and
believed that this destruction would be the wrath of God.

--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- peter at chattaway_com
---
 "I detected one misprint, but to torture you I will not tell you
where."
      Winston Churchill to T.E. Lawrence, re Seven Pillars of Wisdom

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