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'ello (aug 12)

'ello to you all this fine evening.  i've missed the
list lately :)

john (hi, john!, we've not met: i'm j. marie)

i had to giggle at the postmodernist thang...kelvin is
very concise.  i think we all have a drop of it
somewhere b/c that's right where we are in time etc. 
either way, i had a few comments/questions.

>Jesus is important to me
>because of what he taught, and represents-- the union
>of humans with the
>divine.

i think this symbolic understanding undergirds even
the claims of evangelicals etc.  that's a relational,
love-based idea.

> It almost doesn't even matter to me whether or not
>the resurrection
>*really* happened,

it's that "almost" that makes room for me to
appreciate the many levels of what the resurrection
means.  but i think whether or not it really happened
does matter.  if it didn't, i still ain't on my way
closer to god.  and what a mess that'd be.

>because what makes the 
>resurrection important is what it
>*means*-- that humans need rebirth, need communion
>with God, among other
>things. 

but that meaning would be a downer if it weren't
contingent on the promise that a way was indeed made. 
we know we are in need: great.  but how that need is
met could be intricately important; and for many
christians, it's essential.

>I can't stomach the idea that Christians are the only
>people with
>access to either the divine or rebirth:

it's not a "likeable" idea ;-}  i'd be a liar if i
said that in the fullness of my humanity i
aesthetically and cheerfully grinned at it.  i will
say, though, that although i am not a religious
pluralist, i don't know all the ins and outs of how
god brings all of his beloved to himself.  though i
believe that i have some definitive clues, i hope that
the brilliance of his plan surpasses what i can
imagine and understand from his word.

>such imagery and ideas appear in
>others forms in other faiths, and each faith is a
>religious response to the
>needs of the people who invented it.

but if none of them has the potential to actually
reflect a true reality, then we all might as well slit
our wrists right now, right?  if this story we're part
of doesn't make sense or have redemption in it, it's
awfully painful in a meaningless way to live out day
after day.

>Each, therefore, has something unique to
>teach us.

i totally agree with you here.  and while i'd
need/rely on some help in the discernment department,
i think there is wisdom in places we'd rarely look.

> Even different periods of the same faith find the
>practitioners of that faith adapting to their unique
needs.

but does it follow that all of them change truth to do
so?  i do think that we've probably screwed up plenty
along the way--grrr...guess i'll have to swallow
grace, grateful, again.  some of the changes
throughout the history of christianity could perhaps
be attributed to a redemptive-movement hermeneutic of
the bible.  there is this book by william j. webb that
i started recently--it's giving me some perspective on
this issue.

>subculture.) There are others means of negotiating
>those things, and of
>understanding them, many of which are more, er,
open->eyed, but which still
>result in a robust, genuine spiritual response to 

okay but that robust response is predicated on just as
many affirmations as that of the fundys and
evangelicals.  they make just as many strong
assumptions--they just turn out to be different is
all.  so how is that less narrow-minded (even if it is
done with eyes wide open :)--hardy har har--had to get
some otr in there)?--i don't even know if that's a
relevant question.  i just thought that in these
recent posts that was the assertion.

also, while i like the idea of opening our eyes, it's
been my understanding that faith is not based on what
we see anyway.  if god had created it so, we could
exist in a spiritual dynamic led by purple elephants
and the tenants of every good "b" movie...and that
reality would probably still escape my full notion of
it :)--i'm sure i ain't seein' it all.

well, i gotta go beddy-bye.  my chil'ren return
tomorrow--can you believe summer vacation is over??!!!
 yep, at some ungodly hour i'll be teaching the
beauteous spanish language.

take care,
marie

np: coldplay _parachutes_ (thanks to jillian, i found
this great group!)

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