Another post to delete or skip if you are close minded
or do not want to read about non-OTR stuff or my Christian views. Please read
this, Jillian... and even Ysobelle.
I originally wrote:
> I do not hate anyone, but if anyone is caught in (not willing to
turn
>away) from certain sins AND AND AND claims to be
a brother in Jesus Christ, then
>I will have nothing to
do with them.
m replied:
(m) You had me up to this point, Joe.
I strongly feel that we can distance ourselves from those who offend us
(Joe) they do not offend me, I try to love them. See
below.
(m) --everyone does this--not just certain
religions, but to consciously decide to condemn these people based on their
"perceived" actions, well that's too judgemental for me.
(Joe) If you are a Christians, what does God say about
others who claim to be also? See below.
(m) I cannot ascertain who is
willfully sinning and who isn't. Only G*O*d knows a person's heart
and can make that call.
(Joe) True dat... but is not God dwelling in you? Are
you not to be salt and light in this world? See more
below.
(m) I know that I struggle everyday
with some sins and lots of times I give in--like on the weekends! I'm glad
that there is a loving G*O*d up there who forgives me when I fail and ask for
forgiveness--even if it is only every time something goes wrong!
(Joe) Amen... me too. Keep repenting brother. As for
your past sins, try to "Go and sin no more." This will truly take the power of
God, your trust and faith in him fully. You CANNOT do it by
yourself.
I now write:
m, I like your challenge. It makes me think and also
let's me know how I am coming across. I would say I came across wrong to you
(which is not my fault for backing up what I said) so I will explain
further. I do FULLY agree with you past where you say "Only G*O*d knows a
person's heart."
Well, first off let me say this first paragraph for
anyone who are Christians and believe the full word of God. The original
statement I made above is a paraphrase of this in I Corinthians
5:9-13.
I have
written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
not at all meaning
the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and
swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this
world.
But now I am writing you
that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a
brother but is sexually immoral or
greedy, an idolater or a
slanderer, a drunkard or a
swindler. With such a man DO NOT EVEN EAT.
What business
is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those
inside? God will judge those outside.
"Expel the wicked man from AMONG
YOU."
There it is folks, God's truth. And here is why
and with what attitude you expel people also in I Corinthians
5.
hand this man over to Satan,
so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit
saved on the day of the Lord.
Your boasting is not good. Don't you
know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?
Get rid of the old yeast
that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you really are. For Christ, our
Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
Could it really be that you kick someone out
(discipline them) because you love them and want to see them saved
on Judgment day?
Friends, brother in Christ... this is for you... We are
called to have discernment yet not not make a permanent judgment. Let me
explain.
Discernment is seeing (with your spiritual
eyes) what is going on and not and associating yourself in alignment with evil. And
here is how you discern. You see someone caught in a sin, and you try to
restore them gently (Galatians 6:1-2 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should
restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be
tempted.) Take note of the latter
warning.
Whether they resist you or
not can have discernment of their heart. In Jesus own words "The good
man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man
brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the
overflow of his heart his mouth speaks." Also, though only God knows
a persons heart can make the call, I agree. Isn't God dwelling in us as a
Christian? Do we also not know God and his standards as a Christian? I say this
but we should only do these things when we are "in the spirit." I am "in the
flesh" more often than I should be (that is when I sin.) It takes great wisdom
and God's self-apparent presence to speak out against evil properly. And yes,
this actually does take speaking out, not necessarily publicly. You should speak
publicly against sin. Those who do those sins condemn themselves with there own
choices. You only speak the truth and are not guilty of anything... even
prejudice. But to confront someone specifically about their sin is a
private thing at least at first it is. (Media people... take note...
LOL!) See Matthew 18: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him
his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your
brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so
that `every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three
witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if
he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax
collector.
You do this speaking the truth in Love, and putting
them away from you in love. Heck, by not saying anything and keeping your
brother accountable, you ARE HATING THEM and not following God's commands. You
keep them from being entangled in sin (which it truly
does) because you love them. Never speak against a sinner or sin in an
attitude of spite... doesn't work... but in love... which they still may not
discern, but only because they are blind. It takes prayer beforehand to unblind
them. Do you not know that you can temporarily unblind even an unbeliever
through prayer. Long enough to hear the truth and decide whether they really
want to follow just their own will or align their will with God's. THEIR CHOICE,
you just speak God's truth.
Judgment is this and it belongs to God. If you say,
"You are sinning, and because I know you will never stop and don't want too, you
WILL BE condemned to hell." This is something only Jesus could say. He was so
harsh but loving with the Pharisees who were close minded and thought they
were right. Because he was this way, one actually may have been saved. Remember
when Nicodemus came to him at night?
Discernment is this. "You are sinning in this way.
IF IF IF you continue and are unwilling to stop, God will condemn
you to hell. This is your choice." We all have ideas about what is or isn't sin,
which I will not go into here, read the Bible for more info. Anyways, by coming
across this way, you are not judging, instead you are only speaking the truth.
Those who do these things CONDEMN THEMSELVES by there choice. God PRONOUNCES
JUDGEMENT in the end. Let's face it, if he loves you enough to die for you,
yet if you don't accept that, he is still loving and full of justice in
condemning you for eternity. He would be scorning and unloving of those who
chose him if he allowed every human regardless of choice, into
heaven.
Anyways, we must have discernment
and speak against sin... in God's truth and spirit. God commands it. And only
because he wants to see less sin and more people sold out for
him.
I hope everyone sees that I am not
condemning or judging anyone, just speaking the
truth.
Throw the truth at
everyone, let God sort them out. He created you and
knows just what you need. You can choose to resist, but why do that? Are you
afraid that he isn't who he says he is, can't do what he says he can do. He made
the whole earth and all of it's intricacies. The only reason the world
isn't destroyed right now is because he is patient and waiting for those who
will come to him. After the last one he knows of (and he DOES know,) that is
it... it's all over for everyone else.
I do agree (but only by experience and not facts) that
genetics can affect what sins you tend to commit. But genetics as well as
environment only provide tendencies, options, and opportunities. People make the
choice for themselves. People's choice to willfully sin will earn them a spot in
hell. People's choices to turn to Jesus, who will change there will, and
overcome there genetics and environment, will get them to heaven. This is my
choice and my hope.
Being a Christian is not easy, but
it's worth it. I have Christ but it doesn't "make all my little problems go
away." I don't have him in order to have the good life, but because I need him.
I am a lost and hopeless sinner without him. HELP ME if I am. LOVE ME if I am. I
need Jesus too. Jesus gives me hope, a true hope that is as real as my 10
fingers. A transforming hope that redeems me into who I am and will be. And
because of this I will never turn back. Though I still struggle, Jesus blood is
available to me every day, and I always have new chances to make right
choices... and actually DO GOOD... WOW, I can actually do good now. But I need
Jesus first before I can do any lasting good, good that is really good and
really matters.
Above
all,
for everyone who is on this
list,
whether you read this or not,
whether you hate me or not,
whether you are angry or not,
I LOVE
YOU!
and
also... please challenge me... LOL
God
bless,
Joe
<><