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Re: homophobia (not really limited to that)
Joe,
Your post made me think of a very real and concrete answer to Steve's
question about what churches can do to make lgbs feel accepted.
It's a simple thing and and something I've already cried out for in this
discussion.
Listen to us.
I'm sure it's not your intent, but when I read your post these are the
things I hear:
automatic association of homosexuality (or homosexual acts) with sin.
There is no sense that homosexual act can be part of a stable, loving
relationship. lgbs are automatically assumed to be the stereotypical
'loose-moraled' libertarians who will shag anything that moves as long as
it's their own sex. They are purely selfish in their desires and in
fulfilling them. If I were to say something similar about straight people I
would be hounded off the list in a second.
Treat people as individuals with their own lives, their own stories to tell,
stories which are worth hearing and may have something to teach us all.
That, Steve, and Joe, would be an enormous gift you could give us, which
would be of great value to the entire body of Christ.
<br><br><br>Degs
'Wherever Jesus went there was a revolution;
wherever I go people serve tea"
(Anthony de Mello)
>From: "Gennaro, Joe" <jgennaro at harris_com>
>Reply-To: "Gennaro, Joe" <jgennaro at harris_com>
>To: "''" <Over-the-Rhine at actwin_com>
>CC: "'pcg at runbox_com'" <pcg at runbox_com>
>Subject: homophobia (not really limited to that)
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:23:22 -0400
>
>Skip this if you don't want to hear my Christian beliefs on Non-OTR
>subjects.
>Just delete it if you don't have time or an open mind. It's fine with me.
>
>I agree with almost everything Paul said. And if I don't agree then I don't
>have
>an opinion there or else I would have just said it differently.
>Nonetheless...
>
>I do not personally know anyone who is a homosexual (or am not aware of
>it,) but
>I DO know a whole bunch of sinners, myself the biggest one by that I know
>(I
>think I know more mistakes, mess-ups, and sins about myself than everyone
>else
>put together. But I repent from those sins (sometimes often) or at least
>struggle to turn away, and I rely on Jesus' blood to cleanse me and make me
>Holy. These 2 things make me "set apart" and if not better than this world,
>at
>least better off than this world. Please don't take this remark as me
>putting
>myself above ANYONE. That is not my attitude.)
>
>I do know someone who struggled with guilt from a few homosexual
>experiences and
>other sin experiences as well. It's funny, but the more I know about a
>person's
>life, (especially there hang-ups,) the more I love them and have compassion
>for
>them. I am a Christian. I follow Jesus Christ and his ways. I usually end
>up
>being friends with the friendless or with the broken and hurting. They
>don't
>stay that way though which develops into a true friendship based not only
>on fun
>but hard times too. Isn't this what Jesus did? remember his disciples...
>even
>Judas who betrayed him.
>
>I know that there is nothing that I do that makes me worthy of going to
>heaven.
>But I rely on him who provides a way. The ONLY way. That is my faith. Since
>God
>gives us free will, I will not take it away, yet I will proclaim the truth
>wherever I go, that is God's plan for me. What I say most of the times the
>truth
>(I make errors too.) Now the basic beliefs that I believe ARE TRUE,
>regardless
>of whether me or anyone else believes it. No it doesn't matter if you
>believe
>differently, that still does not make the truth different. If you wanted to
>believe that a red apple is blue then you can believe it, but that doesn't
>change the truth. What I am talking about is not only my beliefs, but
>everything
>the Bible says. I KNOW that it is true, and don't ask me because I can't
>prove
>the future to ya. It will unfold itself and reveal itself. As for me I
>'choose'
>to have faith now and believe. And I speak the truth (with love, or try to
>at
>least) so that when you do see and believe it is not too late. Not everyone
>will
>make the cutoff point. Not many will percentage wise (it seems anyways.)
>
>I agree that the choice to act out on your homosexuality is sin and this
>lifestyle is clearly wrong. Not only does the Bible say it but nature says
>it
>too (at least to me) but you have God's free will to believe otherwise.
>There
>are different outcomes to eternity though based on what you choose to
>believe.
>Now I am not a homophobe nor do I hate homosexuals, though sadly I know
>Christians who say bad jokes. (I used to also, before I was mature,
>yesterday I
>caught myself making a bad joke about someone being a Pollock which I
>haven't
>done in years and had to repent for it because I wasn't just jokingly
>putting
>him down, but my tone was insulting a whole nation of people, which God
>made.)
>
>I am not disgusted with homosexuals or there sin any more than I am
>disgusted
>with my own sin. But I do hate their sin, because I hate mine, and so does
>God.
>But despite all my sin, God loves me. He loves me so much that while I was
>still
>caught in my filthy sin, pride, selfishness (mostly this,) and just
>stubbornness, he died for me. He sacrificed himself for a wretch like me.
>This
>is the kind of love that I want to show people (though I fail when I am
>selfish,
>which I struggle with.) I would not love a person any less if they were a
>homosexual than I would my Dad (who was a womanizer who doesn't care about
>anyone but his "love" at times. This is selfish love.) See I Corinthians 13
>for
>true love. I am sure you will agree with this chapter even if you aren't a
>Christian. I wouldn't love a homosexual any less than I would my sister
>(one of
>whom is an alcoholic and won't acknowledge it, and another who is a
>compulsive
>liar who has lied to herself about how she is.) But these family members
>can be
>set free from there "genetic" alcoholism etc etc. If your willing, God
>doesn't
>ask us to be free from something that we can't be free from. He even
>provides
>the overcoming power if we ask him. As a matter of fact, all sin is really
>genetic, passed on from generation to generation. Isn't it funny that my
>Dad was
>a womanizer and though I am not, I still have his roots when I struggle
>with
>lust ALL THE TIME. What a bad society to live in if I'm going to struggle
>with
>that. This society has thrown off all restraints, which affects what most
>people
>believe as the truth, but I won't be fooled, I am going to hold onto God's
>unchanging love, justice, and truth. His commands too, which he has given
>to us
>to help protect us from harm, out of his love. Only a parent who doesn't
>love
>their child will not discipline them for doing wrong. It shows he cares. He
>disciplines even me, a Christian for 14 years, over half my life. If he
>didn't
>love me he wouldn't care what I did and would have no rules at all. His
>rules
>are summed up in this. Love God with all your heart, love your neighbor as
>yourself. His love transcends his rules but does not contradict them. The
>reason
>people will go to hell is if they refuse to love him back, which is there
>own
>free choice.
>
>Anyways, I do not hate anyone, but if anyone is caught in (not willing to
>turn
>away) from certain sins AND AND AND claims to be a brother in Jesus Christ,
>then
>I will have nothing to do with them. I believe sexual immorality as well as
>greed, slander, and stealing are among these. I will do this BECAUSE I love
>them
>too. By saying they are a Christian and intentionally continuing to do
>these
>things and not let God change there ways, they lead others into the same
>sins
>that God hates. (Notice... sin God hates) Because of this the wrath of God,
>the
>destruction of the world and everything in it in due time, will be upon
>those
>who hate God (Jesus too) and continue in there rebellion. Also the ETERNAL
>(that
>is forever) punishment for those who don't turn to him for help to overcome
>there own nature... in everything, no,
> not just homosexuality.
>
>Thought everyone in the group would need a strong dose of TRUTH. If you
>read it
>is your own fault if you are angry now. If you didn't want to read this or
>believe it then you should have taken the warning in the beginning of this
>to
>heart. Oh yeah, I expect to get persecuted for this one. Jesus would too
>and I
>would gladly participate in his sufferings in such an easy way as getting
>hate
>mail. Here, mail hate mail to my house...
>
>Attn: the least of God's servants
>1000 Golden Road,
>CityOfMansions, Heaven
>
>Just kidding on the address... but not for long...
>
>God bless,
>Joe <><
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